Friday, April 20, 2012

Dialogues on Worldview and Logical Consequence - Interlude to Human Existence Three

"The Atheists lead you to progress to flourishing society to facts to certainty."- Atheist One

(me) "It is indeed possible to be so concerned with 'the facts' that you lose sight of what supports those facts. In such shortsightedness, you forget to realize that by abolishing mankind's (and society's) sense of the metaphysically transcendent and of absolute Thomistic causality (again, as was proper to European society), you have removed from thought the only entity capable of making societal progress worthwhile. Only one insane pursues no goal, no truth, no good nor perfection. Atheistic societal progress is an unadulterated myth. If we came merely from the animal kingdom, and possess no soul patterned after the divine, then why civilize man? If man has no ultimate destiny, where are we progressing to, exactly? A greater good? No such thing, since that would require a scale of perfections, implicitly implying an absolute Good. Progress is only as good as where it ultimately leads; from an atheistic consciousness, barbarism and civilization end in the same non-being. Thus we see a society whose governing philosophy is atheism is a congregation of uppity apes constantly imposing upon themselves absurd delusions of grandeur and wish-projecting this silly thing called morality, a weak excuse to mask seven billion Wills and their evolutionary clashing; said congregation of apes deluding themselves in happy dreams from realizing they come from nothing and go to nothing, illusion of meaning and 'progress' in between notwithstanding. This, the logical consequences of atheism, is simply abolishing humanity along with God; it is abolishing God in man and man in God; it is abolishing the Image of God and its Origin, the Most Holy Trinity."

"You just are too narcistic to accept that you do not serve any concrete ultimate Goal. The life by it's nature is meaningless it is you who should put a meaning to it the most important is the goal but the most fun is the process. The process is the fun from atheistic point of view there simply is no God and that is all. Shortsightedness? without us atheists you would never have the internet you would never have things without which your life would be miserable. No society progress cannot be worthwhile it is the best thing it is you may say your ultimate Goal."- Atheist One

(me) "A rational man never acts, strives, believes, and suffers for no reason whatsoever, that would be pure vanity. If the most rational face you can put on atheism is that it is a laborious and intense process of societal progress away from traditional human understandings of God, spirituality, and nature, toward no goal, no end, and no good, purely for the sake of doing something subjectively and personally fun, then theism is just as rational, even from the atheistic perspective; we wouldn't even need to posit any reasons for belief! It is totally irrational to just say 'There simply is no God and that is all, and we're going to just continue on endlessly moving from undefined to undefined,' for you cannot even be human enough to perceive definition, or reject another understanding of the universe as a lesser good from an atheistic viewpoint. Atheism is utterly self-defeating, intellectual suicide, and the abolition of man, because in it you are bound not to make truth or value statements, which are nonexistent in atheistic context. If you even cannot establish categorically that a theistic worldview is bad or untrue, and that your worldview is good and true, and finally, present an alternative destination or goal that society *ought* to move toward, all of which are human and require reference to the Divine, then all I can say is you've surrendered rationality. All you can say is, "This is subjectively fun." On the contrary, I stand by and offer rationality and faith in the Truth together with humanity, God in man, God in Image of God, not narcissism."

"D*** you self righteous falsly pious zealots. Leave your thoughts for your theology class and share them with someone who gives a flying F***. Any religion since its beginning was designed or later became a tool to force laws onto uneducated masses. You have been fooled to believe in magic and never grew out of the collective mindset that surrounds you. You will never change that but know that you have no more soul in your imperfect mortal body than a chimp, a dog or a pig. Death is final. Live."- Atheist Two

(me) "Thankfully, I have freedom of speech in America, which is the freedom to express my point of view in the public forum, whether that is offline or online, in speech or in writing. Unfortunately, that caricature of religion is itself a myth. Some of the most intelligent, educated men in history have been theists and Christians, namely, Chesterton, Tolkien, C.S. Lewis, Peter Kreeft, Cardinal Newman, Aquinas, Anselm, and others. It was a Catholic Priest who first stated the Scientific Method, just as it was a Catholic Priest who laid the foundations for modern genetic theory. Catholics built Western Civilization and developed Law and Society after the collapse of the Roman Empire, Catholics established the Western idea of a University and of Western higher education, Catholics established the notion of a charitable hospital, and Catholics were involved in the development of astronomy and other arts. The myth you are convinced of is that of Marx, and is completely unfounded. You have to realize that religion and theism are rational, and the most rational, beautiful expressions of humanity in Western Civilization have come from educated and intelligent minds who have also accepted theism and Christianity/Catholicism. This is not an accident, since our life philosophy is one that promotes truth, beauty, and goodness, and is striving tangibly toward the goal of the ultimate Good, God. The consequences of your philosophy of man are the abolition of human Reason."

2 comments:

  1. As a question based upon your pursuit with these atheists, do you see why now it is said that one can have no communication with those outside of communion with one? Your points are well-made, but without common basis of thought, they are falling on deaf ears. You should really be careful in dialoguing with such people, too...as the proximity to evil thought can have a tendency to effect one's self at times. Take care! :)

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    1. Thank you, and yes, I do see that quite clearly. The trouble with philosophers is that we tend to debate and attempt communication even with people of entirely different worldview, frame of reference, and philosophical theory than ourselves just for the dialogue of it all and hopefully to encourage the pursuit of truth. For instance, the second atheist was something of a marxist and I am something of a Thomist; two radically different philosophies, but only one Truth, Catholic Truth.

      I find that when I engage such people my faith actually grows because it allows me to hone my thought to a knife-edge - I also hope that my discussions spark thought and increase faith and courage in Catholics confronting the dictatorship of relativism :) I sincerely hope to write a book some day and actually get my thoughts out into the open in a tangible way. Point well taken though.. it's important to return to communion with fellow Catholics and with His Divine Majesty in order to reaffirm the Good, the True, and the Beautiful present only in the Way, the Truth, and the Life :) Take of yourself Nicole

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